tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post7783639329387977149..comments2024-02-29T09:58:18.342+01:00Comments on The Swiss Ramble: Milan's Age Of AusterityThe Swiss Ramblerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-89800516523258103952013-07-20T21:30:19.557+02:002013-07-20T21:30:19.557+02:00thanks very much..!!!thanks very much..!!!Citra Indah dan Citra Granhttp://anetteshus.blogspot.com/2013/07/CitraIndah-dan-CitraGran.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-36412999257327641292012-03-15T03:25:47.915+01:002012-03-15T03:25:47.915+01:00great piece, congratulations. got here reading on ...great piece, congratulations. got here reading on famed milan lab, but read most of it. keep it up.marcoshttp://yepfornow.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-59211795479837088652011-08-19T17:55:12.410+02:002011-08-19T17:55:12.410+02:00This is exceptional work, Swiss Rambler. If I may ...This is exceptional work, Swiss Rambler. If I may ask where do you get all of your information? Does the club make these reports available, or you also mentioned Deloitte? It may seem odd but this is all really interesting to me, club finances that is. I'd love to explore the primary sources, maybe even check out the more recent reports. Thanks!David Boatrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12966439619094297954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-81254955437114733062011-08-12T10:43:22.462+02:002011-08-12T10:43:22.462+02:00Just wondering why Amortization is part of the ope...Just wondering why Amortization is part of the operating profit?<br /><br />In other articles it isn't. Which way is the most appropriate way to account for the operating profit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-1089094792966483292011-07-06T12:19:43.424+02:002011-07-06T12:19:43.424+02:00Milan have just published their latest account whi...Milan have just published their latest account which showed an even worse fiscal year in 2010. <br /><br />I have a question, however, regarding FFP. When Galliani talked about the financial report of 2010 he said that the fiscal year of 2011 (the entire year as the club's accounts follow the actual year) was the last year before FFP. Is it possible for Milan to do this? I was under the impression that FFP started this summer already. Do you know if there is a rule for those clubs who do not follow the football season in their accounts but follow the calendar year?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-33196883024513981072011-06-09T04:23:50.830+02:002011-06-09T04:23:50.830+02:00Milan got lucky last summer transfer window. They ...Milan got lucky last summer transfer window. They had money to spend from Kaka sale and a depressed market after the other big clubs had spent a lot of money in the previous 2-3 years.<br /><br />They really have to build off this now. Mexes and Taiwo were good buys on free transfers. <br /><br />Milan accounts could look very good if Merkel and Strasser continue to develop and they can sell/let go a couple of older players with big wagespatcookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10562844048305070041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-90430645017431843662011-04-23T11:11:56.701+02:002011-04-23T11:11:56.701+02:00@Andy,
Yes, I explained this in the article.
The...@Andy,<br /><br />Yes, I explained this in the article.<br /><br />The revenue reported in Milan's annual report is as per Italian standards, i.e. it is grossed up with the costs including the share given to away clubs. When reviewing Italian clubs, I always deduct the expense from the gross revenue to give a net figure, which is the way that Deloitte handle this in their yearly ranking of European clubs. This ensures that they are comparing "apples with apples".<br /><br />So, in the case of the 2009 TV revenue, Milan's reported figure is 133.5m (Proventi da cessione diritti televisivi), from which I deduct 16.7m (Percentuali su diritti televisivi a squadre ospitate), which gives the 116.8m figure in my profit and loss table.<br /><br />The same principle applies for gate receipts.<br /><br />Every Italian review I have done this way produces the same figure as used in the Deloitte report - except Milan, because they close their accounts on 31 December. I queried this directly with Deloitte, who told me that the club had provided them with figures adjusted for the timing difference.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-58913937865677730602011-04-23T10:47:52.198+02:002011-04-23T10:47:52.198+02:00Hi,
I stumbled onto this article by chance. I m...Hi,<br /><br /> I stumbled onto this article by chance. I must say it is well written. However, some figures in your article seem to be significantly different from milan's yearly report.<br /><br />for example, the tv revenue for 2009 is 133.5M, while for 2008 it is 122.2M.<br />(http://www.acmilan.com/it/club/balance_sheet)Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-59781481258012339792011-01-01T11:00:01.010+01:002011-01-01T11:00:01.010+01:00@David,
I don't think that the debt is over-s...@David,<br /><br />I don't think that the debt is over-stated. As you rightly say, the net debt of €301m refers to the consolidated group balance sheet (Gruppo Milan), but the same annual report also breaks out the football club accounts (AC Milan), where the net debt is at a similar level, in fact it's slightly higher at €306m.<br /><br />Of course, the club's debt could be affected by balances in other parts of the Fininvest empire, but the debts that I have listed are all external, e.g. to banks, and exclude any inter-company payables.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-30555243396514687382010-12-31T20:29:33.434+01:002010-12-31T20:29:33.434+01:00@ Swiss Rambler
The part on Milan's debt is v...@ Swiss Rambler<br /><br />The part on Milan's debt is very interesting. Like many other commenters on this blog, I was also under the impression Milan's debt was very small (I'm talking under €100m).<br /><br />The two articles quoted in one of these comments, where Galliani claims the debt is €9.8m, I believe are a case of the writer not understanding the difference between a yearly loss (the figure Galliani quotes in these articles is exactly the same as the yearly loss in the Milan accounts) and net debt. <br /><br />However, I find it difficult to believe Milan has a net debt of €301m. Debt can be a complicated thing anyway, and there are several financial nuances that can constitute as debt without actually being as serious as the word implies. <br /><br />I think that the debt for Milan football club is small (I.E. not €301m), but that the figures are being distorted due to the quotes being for Milan group, which is wholely possible considering the various arms of that company. What do you think to this?Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-58960296249443783182010-11-25T19:56:00.307+01:002010-11-25T19:56:00.307+01:00Very nice post, and very nice blog!
I just discove...Very nice post, and very nice blog!<br />I just discover it, good job!Davidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-21472320614965086362010-11-24T16:15:23.297+01:002010-11-24T16:15:23.297+01:00Marvelous!
I will surely read that as soon as po...Marvelous! <br /><br />I will surely read that as soon as possible. <br /><br />I actually found the article I was searching for as well. It was the Ibrahimovic Transfer Article.Mikaels1985https://www.blogger.com/profile/17174993490769328422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-40333329890699798402010-11-24T14:10:41.386+01:002010-11-24T14:10:41.386+01:00@Mikael,
If you go to the latest piece on Bolton ...@Mikael,<br /><br />If you go to the latest piece on Bolton Wanderers, there's an explanation of player amortisation about 2/3 down (just after the graphs on wages).The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-370974856956288952010-11-20T15:50:07.927+01:002010-11-20T15:50:07.927+01:00No worries.
I can see why the phrase/username co...No worries. <br /><br />I can see why the phrase/username could cause the confusion. <br /><br />Thanks for the link :)<br /><br />I have tried to find one of your other articles where you give a definition of Player Amortisation. I know its there becuase I have read but I simply cannot find it again??<br /><br />I do not know much about accounting in general so it could be usefull to have the definition.Mikaels1985https://www.blogger.com/profile/17174993490769328422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-87938552446721698912010-11-19T14:37:03.112+01:002010-11-19T14:37:03.112+01:00@Mikael,
My apologies - I misinterpreted your com...@Mikael,<br /><br />My apologies - I misinterpreted your comment when you said you had to "return to the wages".<br /><br />Re transfer spend, I took my figures from the Transfermarkt website. As you know, transfer figures are always open to debate, so some may not be 100% accurate, but it's a good, easy source for transfers that covers many years.<br /><br />Milan's transfer "balance sheet" can be found here, but you can also drill down into each year to find the player details:<br /><br />http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/ac-mailand/transferbilanz/verein_5.html<br /><br />Hope that helps.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-9860772382555982972010-11-19T14:20:18.949+01:002010-11-19T14:20:18.949+01:00Swiss Rambler
It was not me who made the claim re...Swiss Rambler<br /><br />It was not me who made the claim regarding the "worst part". I will make a profile so I don't get mixed up with the other anonymous comments. <br /><br />But I'm sorry if I repeated the some points. I know how time consuming it is to have a blog even without this. <br /><br />But for my question regarding this years transfer budget. How did you calculate this? <br /><br />This is mere of interest as I do not dispute the numbers.Mikaels1985https://www.blogger.com/profile/17174993490769328422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-67663139012230221372010-11-19T14:10:58.580+01:002010-11-19T14:10:58.580+01:00@Anonymous (1:47),
I'm not sure why you are s...@Anonymous (1:47),<br /><br />I'm not sure why you are still banging on about wages. I have now said twice that I believe that the wages are likely to reduce: both in the original article and then in my response to your first comment. There is no dispute about this.<br /><br />However, the main thrust of your initial comment was that 2009 would be "the worst part of the story". I am far from convinced that this will be the case, but, as you say, we shall see when the next results are published.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-52936911557255331722010-11-19T13:52:05.040+01:002010-11-19T13:52:05.040+01:00@Anonymous (1:33),
It's true that the balance...@Anonymous (1:33),<br /><br />It's true that the balance sheet does not identify the source of the loans beyond the "banking system", but the fundamental question is why is the debt increasing? It's because losses are being accumulated.<br /><br />Even if the loans are effectively from a company controlled by Berlusconi, this will not help Milan in the UEFA Financial Fair Play era, unless they can bring their P&L into line. If not, there's a limit to how much UEFA will allow a benevolent owner to cover a club's losses.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-55358009085833530622010-11-19T13:47:29.769+01:002010-11-19T13:47:29.769+01:00I just have to return to the wages once again.
T...I just have to return to the wages once again. <br /><br />The 2009 wages includes the wages for Beckham, Shevchenko, Maldini, Kaka, Senderos. At least for the first 6 months of the year. They are not included in the gazzetta list for this season (http://www.gazzetta.it/Media/Foto/2009/09/03/stipendi/milan.jpg). <br /><br />It is no secret that Beckham, Sheva and especially Kaka (the best paid player in the world at that time)were responsible of a great part of the wages. <br /><br />Compared to next annual report i expect this to have decreased as even though the Gazzetta had reported an increase in this season, they have not included the factors above. Obviously, Beckham played at Milan this spring as well but Kaka and Sheva didn't. <br /><br />Furthermore, the numbers from the Gazzetta have some inconsistencies from 08/09 to 09/10. <br /><br />For instance, Pirlo earns 6 in the newest compared to 5 in the former. Flamini & Nesta 4,5 compared to 4 in the former. <br /><br />At the same time players such as Zambrotta and Ambrosini who both stated that they have taken a cut in their wages when they renewed their contracts, earn the same as before. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong. Milan have a seriuos problem with their wages and even though they have reduced som wages, there is still a long way to go. <br />However, i guess we all will know how their real financial state is in the next financial report (regarding costs) as the wage-slashing policy will have had its first effects. Galliani also stated the other day that he will wait to renew current contracts in the spring in order to make the right decisions. Furthermore, he stated that they would bring up 3 or 4 players from the Primavera in order to meet the regulations from UEFA. <br /><br />Also, how did you calculate the transfer spend/received? Which players did you include?<br /><br />Regarding the fact that the club sold Borriello and Huntelaar it was not just a matter of money. Well, it was in the sense that the club needed to sell Huntelaar in order to raise funds for Zlatan/Robinho. However, when you consider the playing time for Huntelaar in his first season it was no surprise that there was not any room for him after the arrival of Zlatan. The same goes for Borriello who was in a place in his career where he need to play every week and that would not happen with Zlatan in the squad. <br /><br />In the end Milan replaced two decent players with two better players both on and of the field (commercially: Milan sold 10.000 season tickets and 54.000 CL season tickets after the purchases).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-27734062534106042212010-11-19T13:33:52.652+01:002010-11-19T13:33:52.652+01:00The balance sheet does not reveal the debtors of t...The balance sheet does not reveal the debtors of these loans. if it comes from Mediolanum, another child company of finivest, then it is like berlu changing money from left hand to right hand. same case with the interest free loan taken by chelsea from its owner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-76526224455496420682010-11-19T07:41:17.235+01:002010-11-19T07:41:17.235+01:00@Anonymous (12:16),
I have seen his comments, but...@Anonymous (12:16),<br /><br />I have seen his comments, but I'm not sure that I believe them. Although it is true that the Milan Group is part of the Fininvest empire, none of the debts that I listed above are inter-company. They are all external debts with third parties. For the lower figure to be accurate would imply that there were significant cash balances elsewhere in the organisation that could be used to offset the debts in the Milan Group and I'm not sure that is the case.<br /><br />Incidentally, in the very same article where Galliani talked about 9.8m of debt, he also stated that Milan would not be selling Huntelaar or Borrlello (amongst others), but they were both gone a short period after.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-62196289575525237322010-11-19T00:16:23.774+01:002010-11-19T00:16:23.774+01:00According to Galliani, Milan only holds €9.8m in d...According to Galliani, Milan only holds €9.8m in debts. <br /><br />http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/seriea/story/milans-galliani-makes-a-big-splash-in-transfer-market<br /><br />http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2010/04/23/1891648/milan-chief-executive-adriano-galliani-outlines-transfer<br /><br />The thing about Milan's account is that it hide under Finivest, and had connection with Finivest's another child company Mediaset. Finivest's account itself is a mess, largely because Belu controls the company via 19 different enterprise entity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-86170742999598081182010-11-18T00:19:20.074+01:002010-11-18T00:19:20.074+01:00@Anonymous (10:24),
The debt figures used to calc...@Anonymous (10:24),<br /><br />The debt figures used to calculate the debt/value % in that Forbes article are clearly nonsense, as they imply that many teams have no debt at all - including Barcelona.<br /><br />In fact, the whole methodology in their analysis looks seriously flawed to me. Their definition for Current Value is “Value of team based on past transactions and current stadium deals (unless new stadium is pending) without deduction for debt (other than stadium debt).” In other words, if an owner has bought a club for an absurdly high price, funded by mountains of debt, then this is the starting point for the Forbes valuation. Nor do I know how Forbes can accurately source their data for stadium deals. As for “without deduction for debt”, need I say more?The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-81768284270883208462010-11-17T22:24:03.369+01:002010-11-17T22:24:03.369+01:00According to Forbes Soccer Team Valuations list Ac...According to Forbes Soccer Team Valuations list Ac Milans Debt/Value(%)is 0. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/34/soccer-10_Soccer-Team-Valuations_DOV.html<br /><br />How could that be if their debt in fact is €301 million?<br /><br />Thanks for a great blog!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-74739773215283355172010-11-17T18:07:46.690+01:002010-11-17T18:07:46.690+01:00@Anonymous (12:52),
Unfortunately the club does n...@Anonymous (12:52),<br /><br />Unfortunately the club does not provide details of when the debt is due.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.com