tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post7600364728202453126..comments2024-02-29T09:58:18.342+01:00Comments on The Swiss Ramble: Where Does Stoke City's Money Come From?The Swiss Ramblerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-77497178056257498432010-10-09T14:31:54.301+02:002010-10-09T14:31:54.301+02:00Investment into maximising and increasing the club...Investment into maximising and increasing the clubs fan base should remain one of the clubs long-term priorities. Not only would it contribute towards that aim for the club to become self-sufficient financially, but also improve further the perception/image of the club in media, players, business circles which then (hopefully) should feed-back to further enhance the clubs continued progression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-52735837965190005982010-10-09T12:30:00.664+02:002010-10-09T12:30:00.664+02:00That is a great blog and so well researched
We ha...That is a great blog and so well researched<br /><br />We have to be optimisic for the future of the club now that both Peter Coates's children and son-in-law have joined the board<br /><br />The club is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bet365? On that basis I would expect some tax efficient use of trading losses for the club as required<br /><br />On the playing side the quality of football is improving but will not jeopardize results - progress continues - much to the chagrin of certain southern oppositionPaul Pownerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07710374604869014545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-64253534030418646642010-09-23T23:46:02.575+02:002010-09-23T23:46:02.575+02:00Another great article, thank you!
Just for inform...Another great article, thank you!<br /><br />Just for information, I usually look up transfer figures on http://www.transferleague.co.uk (that is when the site is not saturated).Matthttp://www.arsenalfootballclubnews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-17125892089949284972010-09-23T09:44:57.524+02:002010-09-23T09:44:57.524+02:00@That man from Somalia,
You will be happy to hear...@That man from Somalia,<br /><br />You will be happy to hear that I should publish a new blog today.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-12965508182918664382010-09-23T09:44:14.570+02:002010-09-23T09:44:14.570+02:00@Anonymous (5:15),
I can't write about Arsena...@Anonymous (5:15),<br /><br />I can't write about Arsenal's finances every week ;-)<br /><br />Having said that, they are just about to issue the 2010 accounts, so I hope to write something about them very soon.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-89866714954961576032010-09-23T09:43:00.163+02:002010-09-23T09:43:00.163+02:00@Nathan B,
I will send you an email.@Nathan B,<br /><br />I will send you an email.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-87851073537732663762010-09-23T09:35:24.381+02:002010-09-23T09:35:24.381+02:00quick question when is the next article appearing ...quick question when is the next article appearing im an addict for your excellent blogs..<br /><br />cheers that man from somalia again...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-35150982766009362452010-09-23T05:15:34.834+02:002010-09-23T05:15:34.834+02:00Absolutely love the blog mate! But one question .....Absolutely love the blog mate! But one question ... What kind of gooner goes 4 months without post an Arsenal article? Keep up the great work ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-71932404528194861572010-09-21T23:31:21.558+02:002010-09-21T23:31:21.558+02:00TSR,
Stumbled onto your blog a couple of weeks ag...TSR,<br /><br />Stumbled onto your blog a couple of weeks ago and have been catching up on your archives.<br />Absolutely brilliant!<br />Others have mentioned that it's way better than what most outlets publish (Twitter feeds from the players aren't news... they are twitter feeds).<br />I'd love it if you ramble on a bit about the mexican footy league, but that may just be me.<br /><br />Keep up the awesome work!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084307689125617966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-2410308686643889592010-09-21T20:34:03.400+02:002010-09-21T20:34:03.400+02:00Swiss Rambler, Im working on my senior thesis and ...Swiss Rambler, Im working on my senior thesis and was wondering if there's an email address I can contact you at directly.. I have a few simple questions.. Thanks for your time.<br /><br />Nathan B<br />nathan2929@gmail.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-64635974720326703152010-09-20T14:29:28.301+02:002010-09-20T14:29:28.301+02:00@Anonymous (2:04),
In the example you gave the re...@Anonymous (2:04),<br /><br />In the example you gave the remaining amortisation of 6m would be booked as part of the sale, taking the player off the accounts.<br /><br />So, let's assume that the player was sold for 9m, this would be shown in the accounts as a profit on sale of 3m, which is equal to 9m sales proceeds less the 6m net book value (or remaining amortisation.<br /><br />Looked at another way, player was bought for 10m and sold for 9m, which gives a 1m loss. In the books, this would be shown as:<br /><br />Year 1: (2)m amortisation<br />Year 2: (2)m amortisation<br />Year 2: (6)m remaining amortisation<br />Year 2: 9m sales proceeds<br />TOTAL = (1)m loss<br /><br />Hope that's clear ;-)The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-72636780094883061742010-09-20T14:04:03.927+02:002010-09-20T14:04:03.927+02:00Fantastic post again!
But there's one thing I...Fantastic post again!<br /><br />But there's one thing I was wondering about:<br /><br />For example, a club buys a player for 10 million pounds on a 5-year deal. The club pays the 10 million to the selling club, but instead of his transfer fee being reflected in the books right away, there will be 2 million pounds amortisation each year during his 5-year contract.<br /><br />But the player gets sold after 2 years. That means his amortisation was only 4 million during his stint at the club leaving 6 million still unreflected in the books. In this situation the club still has to amortise the 6 mllion for 3 years? He's not at the club anymore, but still featured in the accounts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-64603899361303061292010-09-18T11:40:01.068+02:002010-09-18T11:40:01.068+02:00Great article as always Swiss!!
It´s ironic that ...Great article as always Swiss!!<br /><br />It´s ironic that all the Stokies praise you and then takes swipes at Arsenal, seemingly not knowing that you´re an Arsenal fan=)...<br /><br />Keep it up and it´s interesting reading about smaller clubs and not just the top clubs around Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-68349278928542826482010-09-16T12:51:26.013+02:002010-09-16T12:51:26.013+02:00Another Stokie here to congratulate you on an exce...Another Stokie here to congratulate you on an excellent article. I learnt more about my club in the 15 minutes it took me to read and absorb the piece than I have in 40 years of supporting them.<br /><br />A previous poster makes an interesting point - will Denise and John Coates take up the mantle when "Sir" Peter knocks on the pearly gates? The catalyst for the end of PC's previous reign was a 0-7 home defeat to Birminhgam followed by a very nasty pitch invasion. Several hundred of our more "passionate" fans tried to climb into the directors box to get at him - I've heard many stories about that day but the general consensus is that he was locked away somehwere in the ground in fear of his life. He was despised at the time by many Stoke fans, the perception being that he had furthered his own business career (Stadia Catering) at the expense of our once proud club. We were a shambles and heading for relegation to League One for the second time in a few years under his stewardship. <br /><br />Its highly likely (despite recent public utterances) that his kids have never forgotten that day and who can blame them? To his credit, it didnt seem to bother him even though he was by no means universally accepted by Stokies when he came back for more in 2006. What he has done since then is magnificent and he is now regularly referred to as "Sir" or "Saint" Peter.<br /><br />Like the previous poster I wonder whether Denise and John will cut and run when the old man departs. It will be a sad day for Stoke, but if we are still in the Prem and he completes his plan to make us self sufficient then he will leave a legacy to the people of Stoke-on-Trent that will be up there with other great Stokies such as Sir Stan and Reginald Mitchell (Designer of the Spitfire - yes, you'd all be speaking German now if it wasnt for a Stokie ;-))<br /><br />Even if he doesnt, he has become a hero to many Stokies and will always be remebered as the man who gave us back our pride - and that doesnt appear on any balance sheet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-36482568081672039002010-09-16T10:41:09.416+02:002010-09-16T10:41:09.416+02:00great read as always, thanksgreat read as always, thanksUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973626431791714582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-23599173131332491462010-09-16T04:38:38.146+02:002010-09-16T04:38:38.146+02:00Very good piece, as you'll know by now. I read...Very good piece, as you'll know by now. I read your Celtic article the other week, which introduced me to the blog, and now you've written about both my teams.<br /><br />I am sure you're not short of things to do, but on the off chance ... something comparative would be very interesting: either comparing a handful of top-tier clubs across Europe or, more difficult but more interesting, looking at EPL versus MLB or NFL.<br /><br />On the matter of Stoke, I'd be very interested your opinion on the club's value on the open market. I am not at all optimistic about the Coates family carrying on in father's footsteps. I think both son and daughter remember and do not forgive the hounding of their father that preceded and even followed the sale to the Icelanders. I would be astonished if they were to turn away a serious buyer. Of course, we are a relatively little club, and not at all fashionable, but this season, as usual, there are seven or eight 'small' clubs in the Premier League, based in unattractive, unprosperous, football-loving towns - a sizeable fraction of the top twenty. All the international investors seem to be only interested in big-city outfits: does this mean the Coates family could never get back their investment?deliasmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07365942519550396598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-31514509707973743842010-09-16T00:38:29.073+02:002010-09-16T00:38:29.073+02:00Absolutely top read, very well researched and very...Absolutely top read, very well researched and very factual. I shall be reading your Blogs each week from now on.<br /><br />Gary HackettUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08055157003280706327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-60477064124781432442010-09-16T00:10:39.468+02:002010-09-16T00:10:39.468+02:00@Mike,
You're absolutely right about the sala...@Mike,<br /><br />You're absolutely right about the salaries for Wolves, Birmingham and Burnley. As you say, I would need the next set of their accounts for a relevant analysis.<br /><br />I partially agree with your point on the amount of "soft" debt, but I'm also a bit cautious about the benefactor model. This works fine unless the benefactor leaves for whatever reason. Sure, he might have already written-off previous loans, but it then presents a difficult challenge going forward (unless another benefactor steps in).The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-39928781981585784052010-09-16T00:04:34.789+02:002010-09-16T00:04:34.789+02:00@Anonymous (4:23),
I'm sure that your figures...@Anonymous (4:23),<br /><br />I'm sure that your figures are more accurate for Arsenal. I took mine from transfermarkt just to illustrate the point that Stoke had spent more than most other Premier League clubs, which I found surprising.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-67846453718777431162010-09-15T20:14:17.206+02:002010-09-15T20:14:17.206+02:00The quality of writing here remains a shining beac...The quality of writing here remains a shining beacon amounst the (largely) ill-informed, ill-researced subjective nonsense that predominates in the blog world of football.<br /><br />Its simply brilliant stuff mate! You need to get copy posted to the broadhseets- Im sure The Times would run this this stuff in the Game (whatever your politics).<br /><br />Keep it coming!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-49591367719585514532010-09-15T20:06:58.754+02:002010-09-15T20:06:58.754+02:00if stoke and pulis represent "the real cultur...if stoke and pulis represent "the real culture of English football", it's no wonder the England national team is a running joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-42712218595839129512010-09-15T18:54:14.648+02:002010-09-15T18:54:14.648+02:00An extremely well researched article with many ast...An extremely well researched article with many astute observations which almost suggests you have had some inside information. It was a really enjoyable read. Good fortune and luck and timing of course as well as sound financial management have also been factors in Stoke's progress. Yet as you will have picked up in some earlier comments our sensitivites are enraged at times by the continued rantings of a certain French person with a London outfit whose arrogant and poisonous comments are intended to humiliate others and to influence the performance of officals in matches in his favour. Of course all managers will do this but not to the extent of this particular individual who has no understanding or interest in the real culture of English football.<br /><br />GB PrestonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-90972486968141009272010-09-15T18:39:23.184+02:002010-09-15T18:39:23.184+02:00Incredible article (and that is said in a positive...Incredible article (and that is said in a positive way). Wonder how much study it required and what were the sources.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-74224270811659795082010-09-15T17:36:01.284+02:002010-09-15T17:36:01.284+02:00@ TSR,
thanks for your reply.
while your assump...@ TSR,<br /><br />thanks for your reply. <br /><br />while your assumptions are valid, my fear is that the club and players/agents will "collude" to come up with agreements that are longer only on paper while in reality the initial contract will remain standing, along these lines:<br />- initial 3-year contract at 5m salary per year = total 15m<br />- after 1 year, the renegotiated contract is a 4-year contract with a salary of 5m in the first 2 years and a salary of 1 euro for the last 2 years and a gentlemen's agreement that the player will actually be sold/released after 2 seasons. <br />I realise this is quite an extreme example and the player would take some risk in binding himself on a longer contract for nothing, I would imagine that a "golden handshake" type of agreement could also be included. And as the football world is quite small, if the club would breach the gentlemen's agreement, I would imagine everybody will find out and it would be impossible for them to sign other players in such circumstances (and we also know that the performances of a player kept against his wishes at a club are not really up to standard, so the club would gain nothing anyway from keeping him).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15788882673685819301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-72316631985642027652010-09-15T16:50:28.074+02:002010-09-15T16:50:28.074+02:00Great blog.
The only thing I'd point out is t...Great blog.<br /><br />The only thing I'd point out is that Stoke's performance in 2008/09 (12th place) in relation to what they spent on wages was even better than you stated. Newcastle, Middlesbrough and West Brom were in the League that year and I believe both Newcastle and Boro had considerably larger wage bills than Stoke. I think West Brom had the lowest staff costs in the league, so Stoke finished 12th despite having the second lowest wage bill in the league. A tremendous effort.<br /><br />The Wolves, Birmingham and Burnley figures relate to what they spent on staff costs in the 2008/09 Championship season. Birmingham would have been in terrible financial trouble if they hadn't got promoted that year because their wage bill was ridiculously high in proportion to their turnover. They reported a £20m+ loss that year which simply wasn't sustainable.<br /><br />I think Wolves and Birmingham would make good future blog material but I guess you're waiting for their 2009/10 Premier League financial results to be lodged at Companies House before looking at those two clubs.<br /><br />I'd also be interested in your views on the amount of debt that Premier League clubs are supposedly in and your general thoughts on the way those clubs are run. In my opinion the overall debt numbers have been grossly exaggerated by the media. The £3bn figure that gets touted around is absurd because so much of it (over half) is made up of 'very soft' interest free loans from the owners of those clubs. The fact is that the vast majority of Premier League clubs either have sustainable business models or have excellent owners (likes Coates at Stoke) who cover losses. There are exceptions of course, notably the Portsmouth fiasco and the situation at Liverpool but I think it's unfair that all the clubs get tarred with the same brush when so many of them really don't deserve it.Mikenoreply@blogger.com