tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post5906475762257621838..comments2024-02-29T09:58:18.342+01:00Comments on The Swiss Ramble: Fortune's Always Hiding At West HamThe Swiss Ramblerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-61125505959264657422012-07-19T12:38:32.890+02:002012-07-19T12:38:32.890+02:00Would also enjoy a West Ham update. One of the mor...Would also enjoy a West Ham update. One of the more financially.. eumm.. exciting clubs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-31588479824420162742011-06-30T22:49:30.668+02:002011-06-30T22:49:30.668+02:00Big request for another article on West Ham now th...Big request for another article on West Ham now that they definitely have the Olympic stadium (and seemingly on a very good deal) but have just been relegated. <br /><br />Should prove a real challenge for your analysis!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-39720440474737224042010-07-30T12:42:07.656+02:002010-07-30T12:42:07.656+02:00@JBJ,
I'm quietly thrilled that I have a read...@JBJ,<br /><br />I'm quietly thrilled that I have a reader from Iceland!The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-4527759482793747262010-07-28T15:49:59.730+02:002010-07-28T15:49:59.730+02:00As an Icelander we watched with incredulity at our...As an Icelander we watched with incredulity at our former head of the local FA (KSÍ) the Eggman himself went on a drunken spree, putting 70k pounds every week into the pocket of Lucas Neill (memory might be wrong but it was silly money).<br /><br />Neither Björgólfur or Eggert rank among the finest exports Iceland has produced, in fact both could be said to rank among the worst ever, Björgólfur making it to a french papers "Worst 7 men of the banking crash" list.<br /><br />"I don't see that they were overpaying compared to the perceived depth of their pockets at the time". The pockets were made out of debt and they were overpaying on a massive scale. Ljungbergs legs were gone and he must have thought he won the lottery when Eggert phoned him up and offered him silly money.<br /><br />Things are pretty bad when even Björgólfur thinks you are spending too much as Eggert did.JBJhttp://www.worldfootball.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-11508841930502470622010-07-16T11:24:48.718+02:002010-07-16T11:24:48.718+02:00well done swiss rambler...this blog needs to be em...well done swiss rambler...this blog needs to be emailed to all whufc supporters..at last a good piece about all the recent history at whu..no rubbish just the way it is...many thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-34048594987955663262010-07-15T18:28:17.982+02:002010-07-15T18:28:17.982+02:00@Joppe,
Thanks - both for the kind words and your...@Joppe,<br /><br />Thanks - both for the kind words and your very well-considered comment.<br /><br />One thing's for sure, it is indeed a lot easier with the benefit of hindsight.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-55938841317097901202010-07-15T18:12:07.900+02:002010-07-15T18:12:07.900+02:00Great piece, although some of it, as many of the G...Great piece, although some of it, as many of the Gollivan statements, makes the old saying “hindsight is an exact science” spring to mind. It's a good read and a impressive attempt to paint the big picture. This is something that has been lacking as only tidbits of info are fed to us, often without any context, or even worse, in a biasly selected part of a context.<br /><br />What is true for West Ham now, that relegation would be Armageddon, was also true for the Icelanders. In a January window and only half a season to save a lousy table position, they saw no alternative but to offer top wages to, let’s say, less than top players. It could be argued though that the signings in that crazy January window saved us from relegation and an even greater morass. <br />As you point out in one of your answers to a comment, the consequences of the less than optimal signings (also in the following transfer windows) is more of a proof that relying on a sugar daddy makes a club vulnerable. It would not have been such a catastrophe if the world economy really had stayed on a semi permanent high as most economist were predicting at the time. Still, even with that insight, not very many clubs, or fans for that matter, would hesitate if a billionaire came along and offered to “invest”. <br />At the time at Freddie and Dyer were seen as “proof” that we were taking “the next step”. A bit like ManC paying ridiculous money for Robino to show what they are aiming at. Ridiculous in hindsight for sure. <br /><br />Now, as you point out, Gollivan is paying stupid wages to Benni and tries to fool people into believing we are a big spending club again by letting themselves being linked with all kinds of high profile players. But we shouldn’t be fooled into believing they even consider these deals, as they know it would be a high risk of it being the second coming of Freddie.<br /><br />I hope and think that in the new owners hands we can look forward to a stable future, but maybe we should think twice before buying into all of their descriptions of previous owners shortcomings. <br />Also with that stability comes a restricted player budget which means that their talk of ”a number of new exciting players” is very likely to be more of a sales pitch than anything else. At least for a few seasons...Joppe -https://www.blogger.com/profile/09661438911950838399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-22466943469933369682010-07-13T19:17:34.648+02:002010-07-13T19:17:34.648+02:00@Anonymous,
Fair enough. Possibly I was a bit har...@Anonymous,<br /><br />Fair enough. Possibly I was a bit harsh on Ilan. I remember seeing him score a magnificent diving header last season, but I was not overly impressed with Franco. And I definitely can't outdo your description of Mido!The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-7857315546163722532010-07-13T18:53:57.534+02:002010-07-13T18:53:57.534+02:00A decent article. However, describing Ilan and Gui...A decent article. However, describing Ilan and Guillermo Franco as 'Mediocre forwards' indicates someone that might not actually have watched them play.<br />Franco was classy through and through (just a shame we didn't sign him when he was really in his prime). <br />Also, I think almost all of Ilan's goals were important ones that either won us games or got us points. This is the sign of a great striker, not someone who get the 3rd and 4th goal in a 4-0 win. Maybe he lucked-out but I think he was worth a new contract.<br />Mido, was very, very Mido-cre (I should write for the Daily mirror!!)<br />Sullivan and Gold are the best men to get us out of this mess and take us forward.I do wish that Sullivan would show a bit more class though.<br />Cheers,<br />Dr Martens LowerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-53853594704629227552010-07-13T15:14:25.875+02:002010-07-13T15:14:25.875+02:00Really good article. As a West Ham fan I had a go ...Really good article. As a West Ham fan I had a go at reading the last accounts when they came out but it was great to have everything explained clearly here with a few additional bits and pieces I had missed.<br /><br />Good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-28741664568377016202010-07-13T14:05:14.797+02:002010-07-13T14:05:14.797+02:00@Anonymous,
It's not so much that the strateg...@Anonymous,<br /><br />It's not so much that the strategy was flawed, but West Ham's experience highlights the dangers of relying on the benefactor model. It works fine while the owners are still wealthy and willing to put money into the club, but if something changes for the worse in the owners' circumstances, then the club can also suffer, especially if it still carries significant debt.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-50422622888432324712010-07-13T13:46:58.279+02:002010-07-13T13:46:58.279+02:00Are you maintaining that in the absence of a globa...Are you maintaining that in the absence of a global financial crisis and the collapse of the Icelandic banking system that the 'strategy' being pursued was flawed .... as opposed to foolhardy ? Maybe they should have had better crystal balls but I don't see that they were overpaying compared to the perceived depth of their pockets at the time. Hindsight is a great analysis tool !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-53019847626897638202010-07-13T10:44:15.752+02:002010-07-13T10:44:15.752+02:00@Anonymous (10:36),
Yes, that's a fair point,...@Anonymous (10:36),<br /><br />Yes, that's a fair point, though it's not clear whether all of the reduction was due to the outsourcing of the catering.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-79474278466224201802010-07-13T10:36:33.418+02:002010-07-13T10:36:33.418+02:00"... as administrative staff fell from 156 to..."... as administrative staff fell from 156 to 110 and part-time employees were slashed from 1,122 to 728."<br /><br />Not a true reduction in staff - as you state the catering was outsourced, therefore these people went with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-33276690177049537882010-07-13T08:52:35.202+02:002010-07-13T08:52:35.202+02:00I figured that I had put enough time to get the ge...I figured that I had put enough time to get the generals of West Ham's financial situation. Your article was so helpful in consolidating all the details that have been floating around. It's good to know that the club is much better economic shape than even a year ago. <br /><br />Just recently there have been rumors of new investors in the club. The remaining 40% of shares owned by CB Holdings seem to be up for sale, with Russian billionaire Leonard Blavatnik's name being thrown around. I'll see it when I believe it, but Sullivan and Gold have be actively courting new investors throughout Europe and the Middle East. I'm excited for the prospects, as it seemed that West Ham desperately needed a solid foundation to be laid before any significant progress could be made. As you mentioned in your article, it has always has the fan support and history necessary to make it a serious player in the English league and Europe. Hopefully the owners have started us on the right track. <br /><br />I hope you don't mind, but I added a link to your post on my blog. I don't get much traffic, but I am advocating more West Ham fans to give it a read. Thanks again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-86863510520733933702010-07-13T08:38:50.072+02:002010-07-13T08:38:50.072+02:00@ar_sage,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm deli...@ar_sage,<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words. I'm delighted you liked the article. Given space restrictions, it's very difficult for the media to present a detailed picture of a club's financials, so often fans are presented with misleading messages.<br /><br />West Ham's financials are not that far away from being in a healthy situation, especially if they can get an injection of new capital from other investors, which would address the outstanding debt.<br /><br />From a P&L perspective, once the exceptional payments are excluded, they only make a small loss, so the contracted improvement in TV money plus judicious cost savings could return them to break-even, though the activity in the transfer market will also play a role here.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-45173155746888331312010-07-13T08:15:00.288+02:002010-07-13T08:15:00.288+02:00What a wonderfully written and insightful article....What a wonderfully written and insightful article. As a West Ham fan, I randomly came across this post on Bleacher Report. Even following the club's travails for the last 4 years, I had never seen the financial details until I read this article. Thank you for the mini-economic lessons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-36457905301536346192010-07-10T14:59:13.730+02:002010-07-10T14:59:13.730+02:00@Anonymous (2:32),
I completely agree that a foot...@Anonymous (2:32),<br /><br />I completely agree that a football club's business model is very straightforward in terms of the finances. I have been a Finance Director at multinationals that are much more complex.<br /><br />Your last line is a classic - an example of dry humour at its very best :-)The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-28960329623227747242010-07-10T14:32:02.809+02:002010-07-10T14:32:02.809+02:00Many thanks for an excellent blog, it should be re...Many thanks for an excellent blog, it should be required reading for anybody who gets the urge to express an opinion about football finance.<br /><br />West Ham’s problems aren’t debt they are capital.<br /><br />Reading this blog I get the impression that running a football club isn’t that difficult. The cashflow is stable and predictable, it is easy to make a good guess at television revenue, or at least account for a worst case and match day receipts aren’t going to have any nasty surprises. A football club has complete control over its main expenditure, salaries, at least for the contracts signed by the current owners. My understanding of the law as it relates to due diligence is limited, but if you pay £50M for a club then you can’t complain about the terms and conditions of the contracts the previous owners have signed. <br /><br />Owning a football club is a big punt, for large clubs that they’ll make the latter stages of the UCL, for smaller clubs that they’ll avoid relegation. I think West Ham will always be in the latter group. <br /><br />AEG has been linked to the Olympic Stadium, if they commit to keeping the running track and some community events this could happen. They would fund it via the sort junk Wembley does now; Spice Girls reunion concerts and Monster Truck rallies. This has two benefits, improving Wembley’s playing surface and bankrupting the FAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-58011278162900978552010-07-10T09:43:00.101+02:002010-07-10T09:43:00.101+02:00@Anonymous (2:54),
I would consider it extremely ...@Anonymous (2:54),<br /><br />I would consider it extremely unlikely that West Ham could avoid paying anything towards conversion costs of the Olympic Stadium. As a precedent, when Manchester City moved from Maine Road to the City of Manchester stadium, the club paid the £35m conversion costs. They have since taken out a LT lease, paying the council rent.<br /><br />However, I think it is possible that West Ham could get the government or local council to pay most of the costs (maybe through lottery funding) and cover mots of the club's share by selling Upton Park. They would then have a far higher revenue stream, assuming that they can attract higher crowds, at the new stadium.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-72535050701688405662010-07-10T02:54:36.209+02:002010-07-10T02:54:36.209+02:00Is it possible for West Ham to move into a new sta...Is it possible for West Ham to move into a new stadium, funded by the public, at no cost to the Hammers? Would this also be rent free?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-11728837644681719112010-07-09T21:38:19.104+02:002010-07-09T21:38:19.104+02:00Hey swiss ramble. LOVE your blog! However I'm ...Hey swiss ramble. LOVE your blog! However I'm dying to hear some thoughts on Arsenal with Koscielny in and the Cesc "situation" not sorted yet. Keep up the great work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-70930009327143617902010-07-09T10:59:41.561+02:002010-07-09T10:59:41.561+02:00@Ramzi,
I already have written about the Fair Pla...@Ramzi,<br /><br />I already have written about the Fair Play regulations! You can find the article at:<br /><br />http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/05/uefa-say-fair-play-to-arsenal.htmlThe Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-81744672146746600172010-07-09T10:18:23.461+02:002010-07-09T10:18:23.461+02:00Are you planning to write about the new "Fair...Are you planning to write about the new "Fair play" regulations?<br /><br />I would like to hear your take about it from the financial perspective before I write my opinion about its impact on football development within the leagues.Ramzihttp://www.footballmood.com/noreply@blogger.com