tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post5642661755839289996..comments2024-02-29T09:58:18.342+01:00Comments on The Swiss Ramble: UEFA's FFP Regulations - Play To WinThe Swiss Ramblerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-29053744562901622462013-04-30T22:32:55.852+02:002013-04-30T22:32:55.852+02:00Great article linked to @ www.talkoftheterrace.net...Great article linked to @ www.talkoftheterrace.net to enlighten the dim !! ****************https://www.blogger.com/profile/01336338636754193981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-38519640044730923972012-11-23T05:39:49.898+01:002012-11-23T05:39:49.898+01:00Splendid article. Could you please share your sour...Splendid article. Could you please share your sources as well? :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12758649134611106815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-59968691928008224942012-09-30T13:00:44.979+02:002012-09-30T13:00:44.979+02:00Another enlightening entry. Can I ask what is mean...Another enlightening entry. Can I ask what is meant by "Asset values" in the plusvalenze table?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-76923678628651846722012-09-24T14:03:02.234+02:002012-09-24T14:03:02.234+02:00PSG proudly presents the loopholes of UEFA FFP:
h...PSG proudly presents the loopholes of UEFA FFP: <br />http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1164533/psg-in-talks-over-new-sponsorship-deal?cc=5739Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-48810511737057643292012-09-22T22:42:51.782+02:002012-09-22T22:42:51.782+02:00CityBlue, both Swiss Rambler and I have explained ...CityBlue, both Swiss Rambler and I have explained to you that the Uefa FFP regulations have already 'kicked in' - from last season, 2011-2012, in fact!<br /><br />The second season of the FFP is this season, 2012-2013, and the results of these two seasons are then judged over 2013-2014 so that the start of the 2014 season is determined by what has happened last season and what happens this season (financially speaking).<br /><br />In the season 2010-2011 City lost almost £200m (admittedly, they shunted some of the following seasons' losses, to the tune of £30m +, into that season, the season BEFORE the commencement of FFP).<br /><br />City recognised that they had to do whatever they could to avoid falling foul of FFP. For your information/edification, FFP has nothing to say about debt. After all, if you can afford to pay off your mortgage, it doesn't matter how much your mortgage is!<br /><br />Utd's 'mortgage' is pretty high but, importantly, is manageable from Utd's own revenues - Oh!Are you aware that the Premier League clubs are now discussing a plan to limit the ratio of wages to revenue to no more than 70%!<br /><br />Utd's ratio is under 50% and City's is 114%!Franknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-13146890064110148742012-09-22T00:06:50.937+02:002012-09-22T00:06:50.937+02:00An excellent article as usual.
I guess you will b...An excellent article as usual.<br /><br />I guess you will be doing a new article on City when the accounts are published at some point in October. The guess by the more astute City fans is the City will fail FFP criteria by somewhere between £65m and £85m this season and around £25-£35m the following season. A good 60% of the failure being due to the effects of player amortisation.<br /><br />BTW - Most of the decrease will be from an increase in commercial revenue. However, the recent Silva deal is a sign of things to come - long contract extensions for team players - for though his salary goes to near £200k a week if City are successful it remains at £120k if they are not successful. It will also improve City's short term FFP position over the next two years by reducing his component of the amortisation 'loss' by more than his salary increase.BlueAnorakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15628012888897767235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-30535278848584175402012-09-18T02:10:46.907+02:002012-09-18T02:10:46.907+02:00Well, it is certainly thorough in a predictable fo...Well, it is certainly thorough in a predictable format kind of way but it fails to highlight the most important points in a readable manner. One is left with the impression of looking at impressive wallpaper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-13003340564783444812012-09-18T02:08:32.323+02:002012-09-18T02:08:32.323+02:00He can simply inject new equity capital sufficient...He can simply inject new equity capital sufficient to buy a new stadium. This would not be a profit and loss account matter.<br /><br />The question is whether he would want to put in another £500m into the club as he seems to have already put in about £700m.<br /><br />But then again it was never really his money but that of the Russian people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-73603922296121588962012-09-14T06:07:11.792+02:002012-09-14T06:07:11.792+02:00Excellent piece, Swiss.
We thought that City and/...Excellent piece, Swiss.<br /><br />We thought that City and/or Chelsea and/or one of the Italian power (in the face a really tough economic issues) might be the test case for UEFA's willingness to enforce FFP firmly. But Zenit and PSG seem to have lapped them.jdwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-23088291344003910002012-09-14T05:59:51.313+02:002012-09-14T05:59:51.313+02:00without reading back through your blog, what is th...without reading back through your blog, what is then stopping a club borrowing money to cover a loss?<br />say a club like mancity has a loss of 40m fy2012 and 20m fy2013, do they simply borrow the 15m to cover the allowable loss? <br />what if manu didnt make cl next year, that coupled with a low share price could drive their investment down and potentially inhibit their re-growth plans should that happen.<br />also, i dont understand why there are clubs not in the cl supporting this. dont they realise that it is creating a superleague of untouchables? as without cl revenue, you need investment to buy players and if you do this for 4 or 5 years then finally crack it into the cl you will face sanctions, when all you are trying to do is improve as a club. the evertons, aston villas, newcastles etc. can look at cl as only a pipedream these days, yet this is called fair play!retynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-73354692956566920902012-09-13T11:49:13.377+02:002012-09-13T11:49:13.377+02:00Question, could Abramovich go and buy Chelsea a ne...Question, could Abramovich go and buy Chelsea a new bigger stadium, outlay the money himself so no debt to the club and then inject the sale of the current stadium/land into the clubs funds, would this be allowed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-64242571200222918232012-09-13T00:19:21.535+02:002012-09-13T00:19:21.535+02:00Thanks for that constructive feedback.
Unfortunat...Thanks for that constructive feedback.<br /><br />Unfortunately, even in a piece as long as this one, I cannot go into detail on every specific issue. However, I have addressed both of your points in previous articles.<br /><br />You're absolutely correct that the first test for a fair value deal is whether it is a related party transaction. I covered this in a piece in July last year on the Etihad deal, which you can find here:<br /><br />http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2011/07/manchester-citys-incredible-deal-know.html<br /><br />Similarly, I outlined how City *could* possibly meet FFP in a piece last December, which included reference to wages for players signed before 1 June 2010, revenue growth (including Champions League money as well as commercial increases) and a reduction in player amortisation. Whether all of that is sufficient or whether City have to rely on some goodwill from UEFA, we shall see. That piece can be found here:<br /><br />http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2011/12/manchester-city-masterplan.html<br />The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-36943778524255230902012-09-12T23:26:20.989+02:002012-09-12T23:26:20.989+02:00Great stuff as ever Kieran but can I point out one...Great stuff as ever Kieran but can I point out one widely-held fallacy in your article. The concept of applying 'fair value' to a commercial deal only applies if a 'related party transaction' is involved. This is a well-established reporting requirement that requires companies to report transactions with individuals or companies that have some element of 'control' (again an established concept) over either the reporting party or the other party to the transaction. So if a director of a club secures the use of an executive box, lends the club money or does a sponsorship deal involving another company he controls, this has to be reported along with the key facts of the deal (i.e. whether it's at normal commercial rates or not). <br /><br />Whatever people may think, Etihad is not a related party to Manchester City FC as there is no common control. If there was, Manchester City would have had to report it in the previous two years accounts. They sisn't so they are happy it wasn't classed as such. All the talk from UEFA about investigating it, is just hot-air.<br /><br />In addition, despite all the assertions otherwise I understand that City are quietly confident of meeting FFP, although the first licensing period might be a bit tight. They should be able to use the provision allowing the add-back of wages paid to players under contracts signed pre-1/6/2010 to scrape in. Even if they don't, they will be able to demonstrate to UEFA that they are on course to comply over the short term. <br /><br />From then on, it will be a lot easier, as revenue will grow (new kit deal announced plus other commercial sponsorship deals in the pipeline) and player amortisation decline, as the contracts for key players signed for large fees are either renegotiated or the players are sold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-59948787801576596712012-09-12T23:12:48.971+02:002012-09-12T23:12:48.971+02:00I agree with Ignacy Pasikonik. This is really good...I agree with Ignacy Pasikonik. This is really good workjustin tvhttp://www.ligtvlive.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-30742326291011643702012-09-12T20:18:56.791+02:002012-09-12T20:18:56.791+02:00City have no debt, these rules do not punish debt ...City have no debt, these rules do not punish debt hence the popular belief these rules are intended to protect the established brands of world football. It punishes those who spend more than they earn, even though this is common practice in nearly all forms of business ("speculate to accumulate"). City are thus troubled as they aren't part of the G-14 cabal these rules are made to appease but I believe they will manage, they have some of the smartest business minds in football around and the addition of Ferran Soriano is a masterstroke, he has done it before at Barcelona and has many friends in the corridors of power at UEFA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-91620969533092621812012-09-12T16:40:41.844+02:002012-09-12T16:40:41.844+02:001)So, have Arsenal gone about it the wrong way pay...1)So, have Arsenal gone about it the wrong way paying for the new ground with player sales and outdated sponcership deals when the cost of the debt on the Grove is weritten off as investment?<br /><br />2)can't rich clubs just sell each other players for inflated sums, effectivaly not spending muchbut keeping the top players in thier privet rich club?<br /><br />3) if the sum payed for a player is spread over the contract for the buying club, then is the selling club also allowed to register only that part of the sum that each year?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-40791223116918937722012-09-12T12:32:28.740+02:002012-09-12T12:32:28.740+02:00Why do hard-line supporters often think that you a...Why do hard-line supporters often think that you are writing against their beloved clubs? I think you are one of the most reliable sources of information, you explain the facts and figures better than most. If everything you wrote were to please everyone, no doubt the info wouldn't be very reliable. <br />If one doesn't agree with you, fine, they can just explain why. That would lead to a debate and everyone would move forward. Criticising for the sake of it isn't very fruitful, is it?<br />Go Swiss!!Frednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-68389788028113873232012-09-12T07:44:26.460+02:002012-09-12T07:44:26.460+02:00City may or may not meet the FFP requirements but ...City may or may not meet the FFP requirements but the trend will clearly be in the direction which UEFA want so I doubt they'll do much more than apply the first level sanctions if any.<br /><br />Perhaps after it's all in place they'll have a go at clubs which retain very high levels of debt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-79540870077432527732012-09-11T15:34:58.817+02:002012-09-11T15:34:58.817+02:00This is brilliant, as you have, in fact, revealed ...This is brilliant, as you have, in fact, revealed yourself to be a genuine idiot for two reasons:<br /><br />1. Despite explaining how FFP works in almost painful detail, you are obviously too thick to realise that FFP has very little to do with debt, though I suspect that you actually don't know the difference between debt and losses.<br /><br />2. If you had bothered to read some of my past posts on Manchester City, then you would know that I have written quite positively about Manchester City's project and indeed their controversial Etihad sponsorship deal.<br /><br />However, I would like to congratulate you on your efforts to embarrass yourself. I'm not sure you could have done a better job.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-56507848754915649512012-09-11T15:20:08.264+02:002012-09-11T15:20:08.264+02:00Idiots like the author and Frank don't realise...Idiots like the author and Frank don't realise that Manchester city no longer needs to spend, by season 2013 when all clubs in europe have to have the laundry neat and tidy. Manchester City will have no debt what so ever to hinder the club.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008092442374345564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-34244190312949172192012-09-11T15:17:27.390+02:002012-09-11T15:17:27.390+02:00Keep dreaming dumbo, the FFP don't actually ki...Keep dreaming dumbo, the FFP don't actually kick in until 2013. Clubs of all leagues were given three years to get their laundry in order, by 2013 Manchester City will be entirely out of debt.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008092442374345564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-58199212895372871072012-09-11T15:15:46.729+02:002012-09-11T15:15:46.729+02:00By the time 2013 comes around Manchester City will...By the time 2013 comes around Manchester City will have wiped their debt clean, same can't be said for £300 million in debt United.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008092442374345564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-28119420597689002382012-09-11T15:14:15.046+02:002012-09-11T15:14:15.046+02:00What a load of bollox, the FFP do not kick in unti...What a load of bollox, the FFP do not kick in until 2013. By then Chelsea. Manchester City and Liverpool will have wiped their debt clean, unlike clubs like Man United who are in over £300 million debt.<br /><br />You idiots need to stop with the wishful thinking, we all know you're praying the FFP hinders Manchester City but in the real world it will never happen.<br /><br />Deal with it Gimps!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008092442374345564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-69829108748210360462012-09-11T10:09:00.589+02:002012-09-11T10:09:00.589+02:00Bayerns commercial revenue breaks down roughly lik...Bayerns commercial revenue breaks down roughly like this: 80 mio sponsors, 40 mio merchandising and 40 mio Allianz Arena. Not sure what exactly makes up for the Allianz Arena part, but I believe rent (mostly from 1860 Munich), sponsoring again (from Allianz mostly) and catering.Cirdannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-75518002349519735852012-09-09T20:00:16.605+02:002012-09-09T20:00:16.605+02:00Simon, Uefa's FFP rules already apply and have...Simon, Uefa's FFP rules already apply and have applied since the start of last season! The first review of these two years starts next year and, in principle, can determine eligibility for European football the following season 2013/14.<br /><br />This summer, City's transfer spending was relatively restrained at least partly because FFP already applies but what they spent last year is included for FFP review next year.<br /><br />City can't meet Uefa FFP rules and it is hard to see Chelsea, PSG, Zenit or Anzhi Machkachkala doing so either.Franknoreply@blogger.com