tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post1622108900865898982..comments2024-02-29T09:58:18.342+01:00Comments on The Swiss Ramble: Show Me The MoneyThe Swiss Ramblerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-21517443871048807822017-10-10T10:57:05.830+02:002017-10-10T10:57:05.830+02:00Do you know what the 2008/09 Premier League Total ...Do you know what the 2008/09 Premier League Total Payment was?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-21073191828370454592013-05-15T10:44:26.731+02:002013-05-15T10:44:26.731+02:00a clear insight of how clubs run football Good art...a clear insight of how clubs run football Good articleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-72154443933441309022013-05-11T14:02:23.409+02:002013-05-11T14:02:23.409+02:00Thanks Swiss. Dare I say I am relieved and happy t...Thanks Swiss. Dare I say I am relieved and happy to see you back. Your insightful and wonderful articles became a kind of dope for me.... And for too long weeks I was coming back with a diminishing hope to read you again and seeing only the article about Dortmund. And today hour rah, I see three new articles! <br />Thanks again, François, Geneva (who still hope to see an article about the finances of the football of the country that is your current home:I.e. about the mighty FC Basel and about the struggling 'club romands'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-44831495389839331342013-05-06T10:53:06.988+02:002013-05-06T10:53:06.988+02:00thanks for all the replies!thanks for all the replies!bartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-52215494200838615372013-05-05T23:46:07.911+02:002013-05-05T23:46:07.911+02:00Welcome back!Welcome back!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-89997292751166218612013-05-03T21:28:24.675+02:002013-05-03T21:28:24.675+02:00On arsenal: why are the cash balances so high? Ob...On arsenal: why are the cash balances so high? Obviously the club's been producing an overall positive cash flow for a while (though they seem to have come to the end of that period since 2011), but why did they need to get to £150m+? You've indicated in previous blogs that most of this is due to bond agreements and cash flow fluctuations, but that this only accounts for part of the total. Could you shed light on why the club keeps it so consistently high?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-67173345599026975252013-05-03T20:11:51.673+02:002013-05-03T20:11:51.673+02:00I'm also thrilled to see you back, and in fine...I'm also thrilled to see you back, and in fine style with two thought-provoking pieces in four days. This analysis leads me to two questions:<br /><br />1. Would you be willing to draw a conclusion about which clubs are in the most advantageous positions from an annual cash flow perspective?<br /><br />2. How prominent are the cash flow before/after financing figures in standard (i.e., not football) corporate financial statements? They strike me as very helpful in this case because they give a rough indication of which clubs might be most affected by strict enforcement of FFP.<br /><br />Thanks for bringing your keen insights back.<br />900 Foot Goonerhttp://900footgooner.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-54954311943055718882013-05-03T11:00:15.813+02:002013-05-03T11:00:15.813+02:00Another echo of many of the comments already here ...Another echo of many of the comments already here - welcome back Swiss!<br /><br />A fascinating read as usual. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-56642277751026868262013-05-03T10:29:22.963+02:002013-05-03T10:29:22.963+02:00Free players don't have any quality. Same as h...Free players don't have any quality. Same as homegrown players. This is the reason Messi's worth is not reflected as a holding in Barcelona's monetary record, in spite of the fact that as a general rule he is most likely worth € 100 million or thereabouts .no money down property investmenthttp://www.vagroupdeals.com.au/home.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-11516628549316802512013-05-03T10:05:30.814+02:002013-05-03T10:05:30.814+02:00Good to see you back Mr. Rambler. It a fine consol...Good to see you back Mr. Rambler. It a fine consolidated piece. Things aren't always what it seems on the surface. Keep up the excellent work.Shubzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07350583557831236325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-56557843291205153822013-05-03T04:53:17.801+02:002013-05-03T04:53:17.801+02:00I think players are valued on the balance sheet at...I think players are valued on the balance sheet at cost (not fair value). So a free transfer would have zero value on the balance sheet. Same principle applies to youth players (who the club have not signed a fee for). Wages and bonuses are expensed not capitalised, so they would not show on the player's value. Although I think signing-on fees which are usually paid to high-value free transfers may be included in the player's (balance sheet) value.<br /><br />As to part2..<br /><br />Free transfers don't increase the book value of the club. So, a club like Barcelona with a lot of highly valued players like Messi and Iniesta (who they paid nothing or very little for) will have significantly lower balance sheet value (and untapped profit potential). rossonerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03832369549115649102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-23168522991623013232013-05-03T04:47:52.576+02:002013-05-03T04:47:52.576+02:00The profit on player sales is recognised in the ac...The profit on player sales is recognised in the accounts when sale is complete. So, the full profit would be recognised when Ronaldo was sold but if the sale was structured as a one year loan and then full transfer of ownership (like Ibra to Milan I think) then profit would be recognised after the loan ended.<br /><br />It was rumoured that Madrid had to stump up the whole 80 m up front for Ronaldo but usually transfer fee payments are staged.rossonerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03832369549115649102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-17391327557752615012013-05-02T22:40:30.674+02:002013-05-02T22:40:30.674+02:00i'll help out here bart
a free transfer has a...i'll help out here bart<br /><br />a free transfer has a 'book value' of £0 so there is no amortisation, and if he is sold before the end of his contract it is all 'profit on player sale'. of course he isnt free, there will be wages and bonuses, and a signing-on fee, and agent fee(s). these are likely to be higher on a 'free transfer' than they might otherwise be.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-57423477503116447432013-05-02T22:37:06.644+02:002013-05-02T22:37:06.644+02:00Free players do not have any value. Same as homegr...Free players do not have any value. Same as homegrown players. This is why Messi's value is not reflected as an asset in Barcelona's balance sheet, although in reality he is probably worth € 100 million or soAnother Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11779444725806272410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-775449112179765042013-05-02T22:31:32.165+02:002013-05-02T22:31:32.165+02:00With Bayern and Dortmund both making the finals no...With Bayern and Dortmund both making the finals now, we have been hearing a lot of the Bundesliga financial model in the mainstream press (which, followers of your blog would already have known about!). It is often reported (in your blog as well as the mainstream press) about how German clubs collectively make profits year in and year out, but how does their cash flow look? Could you tell us a bit more about that, and whether it is actual profit they are making or just some clever accounting? (certainly, Bayern just about breaking even or making only small profits for the last 20 seasons seem like they are doing a bit or engineering to flatten out both the good/bad years)Another Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11779444725806272410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-58847838231951254092013-05-02T22:26:53.465+02:002013-05-02T22:26:53.465+02:00I think many clubs now a days make deals so that e...I think many clubs now a days make deals so that entire money is not paid up front, but in installments. Now, RvP deal may not be like this, but if the deal was structured as, say £12 million upfront and then the rest £ 10 million paid in 2 installments over the next 2 summers (£ 5 million + £ 5 million). In such a scenario how does the player amortisation happen? Is the value taken as 22 million from first year itself, or does the value get added as and when the payment is actually made? Obviously, since the installments are not performance linked, they would have had to be paid anyway...<br /><br />And, in this scenario, how does the accounting take this into consideration if, say RvP is then sold for £ 20 million after 1 season? If we assume £ 22 million paid up front for a contract of 4 years and amortisation of 5.5 million per season, his value after first season becomes 16.5 million, which is a profit of 3.5 million, but if only 12 million are paid up front and the rest 10 million are paid over the next 2 summers, then the value goes down to 9 million after the first season, bringing the profit to 11 million (assming the sale price of 20 million as in prior example), BUT now, Man United still have to pay Arsenal 10 million for that and the next year, bringing the overall profit down to just 1 million?Another Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11779444725806272410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-6079877412253117522013-05-02T13:58:04.789+02:002013-05-02T13:58:04.789+02:00interesting, as always.
I have a series of questi...interesting, as always.<br /><br />I have a series of questions though ...<br />what happens when a club signs a transfer free player? How is the value calculated and would there be any type of amortisation going on in the future?<br />I know this may be a weird question regarding something that costs €0 but in my experience nothing is free (and I'm not only talking about player wages/bonuses etc.)<br /><br />Here's part 2 ...<br />If a club signs 10 free transfer players, all on 3 year deals (to make it easy) how does that affect the story above (does it even affect it?)? In the sense that those players obviously represent a value, so if their total value is higher than the value of the 10 players they replace the club's total value would increase. Can clubs then use this value increase to "cook the numbers" in their favour (with regards to profit/loss, taxes etc.)?<br /><br />Anyway ... cheers for the piece.bartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-20279577721472971612013-05-01T17:29:27.309+02:002013-05-01T17:29:27.309+02:00amortisation... mmm... *slobbers*amortisation... mmm... *slobbers*Webbie - FootieAndMusichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965827413891919593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-26785350881449023842013-05-01T17:04:44.145+02:002013-05-01T17:04:44.145+02:00Fantastic Analysis! Echoing others that we missed ...Fantastic Analysis! Echoing others that we missed your articles.Tottenham boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14142947311013598524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-12810891449636739742013-05-01T01:12:11.999+02:002013-05-01T01:12:11.999+02:00Thank you for your wonderful work!!!Thank you for your wonderful work!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-54732410059634012052013-05-01T00:17:47.400+02:002013-05-01T00:17:47.400+02:00Welcome back Swiss we've missed your explanati...Welcome back Swiss we've missed your explanations and analysis.<br /><br />Your explanation of amortisation is very clear but what happens when a club receives money for selling a player? Did United's £80m for Ronaldo appear in just one year's accounts? And do some clubs agree to pay for a player in one lump sum while others pay an annual amount over several years and how do those transactions appear in accounts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-43507944740040717212013-04-30T22:47:01.541+02:002013-04-30T22:47:01.541+02:00I covered this in an article I wrote on another bl...I covered this in an article I wrote on another blog. Chelsea made much higher revenue per head than the rest. I wrote the article in response to the poorly researched BBC article on 'The price of football' as I felt they needed to take into account the entire cost of going to see your team.<br /><br />The figures I came to (using the clubs own accounts and Deloite) for average £££ per attendee per season were:<br />Chelsea : 08/09 - £1792, 09/10 - £1622, 10/11 - £1629<br />Man Utd : 08/09 - £1445, 09/10 - £1338, 10/11 - £1446<br />Arsenal : 08/09 - £1667, 09/10 - £1567, 10/11 - £1551<br /><br />I did wonder if the revenue at Chelsea is genuine revenue or whether something odd is going on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-18686322738378001862013-04-30T17:37:09.058+02:002013-04-30T17:37:09.058+02:00nice to have you back
nice to have you back<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-90914540205609609102013-04-30T15:35:17.076+02:002013-04-30T15:35:17.076+02:00Will, that's correct.
That £18.5m would then ...Will, that's correct.<br /><br />That £18.5m would then be amortised over the remaining 3 years, so roughly £6.2m a year.<br /><br />In the same way, if a player's contract is extended, then any remaining value is amortised over the new (remaining) life of the contract, so amortisation would reduce.The Swiss Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11423088862174893998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-487486960623783530.post-77893865151863241052013-04-30T15:01:40.604+02:002013-04-30T15:01:40.604+02:00The most commonly reported figure appears to be £2...The most commonly reported figure appears to be £22m, with add-ons to bring it up to £24m depending on certain conditions being met. How would this affect the depreciation of a player? Would his value at the time the clause is met increase by £2m? So as this is the case now, his value would have depreciated to £16.5m (£22m minus the one year £5.5m depreciation), but then £2m would be added on (the reported add-on for winning the league), valuing him at £18.5m with 3 years left?Willnoreply@blogger.com